Talk:Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken
herp derp There ain't even a nature prefix to confuse us this time. If it were called Wind Release: Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken, you would have had a point Foxie, but there's no evidence of any nature's involvement. Some people just refuse to be wrong :P--Elveonora (talk) 11:19, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :He really could make our lives easier if he would just give Naruto some unique abilities. Moving on... if there is no elemental prefix, then logic would assume it is all Wind Release, as is the case with Mini-Rasenshuriken and the like. If IS an elemental prefix, then we assume that it is just that element in the technique, as is the case with Lava Rasenshuriken. ::And we've seen water cut through metal, wind that does blunt force damage, a giant (#*@ing tree that can talk. I'm not buying that only wind nature chakra can cut.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 11:54, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :::^_ worth of mention is that the TBB didn't even have the Fuuton specific shuriken-like blades when it was being formed. It's clear to me that the shuriken shape is just shape transformation in case of this technique and Lavashuriken--Elveonora (talk) 11:58, May 14, 2014 (UTC) ::::While I personally believe that Wind Release is being used as part of the technique, I agree that it should be left off the page until confirmed.--Soul reaper (talk) 12:41, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :::::I agree with Soul reaper. —「[[User Talk:SaiST|'SaiST']]」 15:49, May 14, 2014 (UTC) Blades mean presence of wind chakra, I can't understand how people can be so obtuse about it. Omnibender - Talk - 18:30, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :Time to back off it would seem. Children be all quiet and happy now, that being what matters the most. Indeed, another lecture that ignored ordinary chakra already having cutting properties and what shape transformation can do would be just too much.--Elveonora (talk) 22:55, May 14, 2014 (UTC) ::Except that Rasenshuriken isn't normal chakra, it's wind chakra. Please go read on how it has blades because the wind chakra is used instead of regular chakra. Omnibender - Talk - 23:03, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :::So air bullets are actually cutting things. Water that is strong enough to cut metal is moving in such a fashion that it is turning into wind. In fact, all the earth, water and fire dragons are exactly the same. :::Because yes, only Wind Release produces shurikens. Only. However no need to stroke your own ego. Nobody has the will to keep fighting this stupid discussion. Congratulations.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 23:24, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :::: And thank God for that, because Omnibender is absolutely right. Sorry. Its absolutely mental to believe Rasenshuriken is anything other than wind. That's what it has and shall always be. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 00:52, May 15, 2014 (UTC) :::::Chakra can be shaped into wolves, lions and so on, yet not into a shuriken you say, logic much--Elveonora (talk) 10:55, May 15, 2014 (UTC) :::::: You're one to talk about logic. Right. Especially since Naruto adding wind chakra (to Wind Release: Rasengan) automatically gave it tiny shuriken blades. And I guess that also means that Mini-Rasenshuriken and Big Ball Rasenshuriken aren't Wind Release either, since, you know, you don't have "Wind Release" on a giant billboard to state for you the obvious. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 17:08, May 15, 2014 (UTC) ::::::: Nothing really to add. Like I said, not going to fight the stupid fight. Congratulations.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 20:13, May 15, 2014 (UTC) ::::::: And I suppose the wind element is also an orange color? It actually is attributed with a white/absence of color. The blades on this are in fact made from Chakra, which also makes the same chakra coat that Naruto wears. Koriami (talk) 15:09, May 21, 2014 (UTC) I honestly couldn't sit by and watch people confuse themselves. The Rasenshuriken's blades aren't made just from wind chakra, or Nature Transformation, but from Shape Transformation. Naruto simply picked the best shape possible (and the simplest) to make his wind chakra effective. The whole process, the shape transformation and the nature transformation, equates to Rasenshuriken.... sorry, WIND RELEASE; Rasenshuriken. Anything remotely involving Rasenshuriken has, by default, wind release because of such process. And there's nothing that can really change that... aside from Kishi himself.--Super Kurama (talk) 17:12, May 17, 2014 (UTC) Pic A pic could be gotten right? I cant get pictures so I cant. Munchvtec (talk) 16:46, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :It's better to wait for the raws for a better depiction. —[[User:Shakhmoot|'Shakhmoot']] (Talk) 18:40, May 14, 2014 (UTC) Am I seeing things... ...or is Naruto using one of the black orbs? http://www.qpic.ws/images/huh.png • Seelentau 愛 議 20:14, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :How about this? Seems Naruto used one of those black orbs when he performed this Rasengan (The second orb from the left). —[[User:Shakhmoot|'Shakhmoot']] (Talk) 20:22, May 14, 2014 (UTC) ::Na, that's his staff reverting to its original orb form, since they can only stay in a certain form for so long. • Seelentau 愛 議 20:23, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :::Not sure, black balls are... black. We have so many black balls/substances that we can't tell them apart--Elveonora (talk) 20:30, May 14, 2014 (UTC) ::::Maybe this is a case of simply waiting for how the anime will depict them, or waiting until coloured manga versions appear to clear up the confusion... --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 20:44, May 14, 2014 (UTC) :::::Well, in the panel Naruto throws it, we can still count four of the six orbs he still has. I think that's only a bad angle. That attack went way up high in the sky where the Chibaku Tensei were, and the TSB have a control-range of 70m. I think those CT were higher than that, so Naruto wouldn't have been able to control them so far. Omnibender - Talk - 22:22, May 14, 2014 (UTC) ::::::Probably an oversight or something. No reason to ask Kurama for chakra to create a Tailed Beast Ball, when we could have just used one of his Truth Seeking Balls. Either way, I doubt he's using one of them for the attack.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 22:27, May 14, 2014 (UTC) Omni-kun, there's no need for Naruto to control it after he has thrown it, though. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:38, May 15, 2014 (UTC) On another note: There are no signs of the usual chakra blobs that form the Bijudama. Also, we already know that the Bijudama is made of Yin and Yang chakra. So... • Seelentau 愛 議 10:40, May 15, 2014 (UTC) :Never stated. It's positive black and negative white chakras, not YYR--Elveonora (talk) 10:57, May 15, 2014 (UTC) ::I didn't say YYR, I said Yin chakra and Yang chakra. Yin is positive black and Yang is negative white. It was stated that the Biju are made of those two chakra types and Minato split Kurama in Yin and Yang. You'd have to be really blind not to see the connection. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:07, May 15, 2014 (UTC) :::Not really, Yang Kurama could do a TBB just fine. People take the Yin Fox/Yang Fox split too literary despite us knowing so little about it--Elveonora (talk) 11:10, May 15, 2014 (UTC) ::::Okay, then let's leave that aside. There are still the "no chakra blobs" and the "movement sign" arguments open to discussion. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:14, May 15, 2014 (UTC) In the colored version, it's even more obvios that it's a TSB that's floating to Naruto's palm... guys, come on... • Seelentau 愛 議 09:46, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :Now I'm confused.--10:44, May 20, 2014 (UTC) ::Why? • Seelentau 愛 議 10:46, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :::I have not seen these colored pages so I don't know what you are talking about. Did he use a Tailed Beast Ball, a Truth Seeking Ball, magic Naruto fun time magic?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 10:47, May 20, 2014 (UTC) ::::I claim that he used a Truth Seeking Ball, based on a) the missing "assmbling" of the YinYang-Chakra needed for a Tailed Beast Ball and b) the floating movement and the sound word. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:53, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::I do just want to chime in, we've seen Naruto and B fire Continuous Tailed Beast Balls without showing the gathering of chakra and the floating movement sound. Similar to how we've seen Naruto preform Rasengans without him first showing us him summoning a clone and swirling the chakra, or practically any technique that requires handseals forgoing the handseal part.--10:53, May 21, 2014 (UTC) ::::::I know, but then the new chapter came and Naruto fired six BRS and his TSB vanished. Coincidence? I don't think so. • Seelentau 愛 議 10:57, May 21, 2014 (UTC) :::::::Honestly it could have been an oversight. Kishimoto has made them before. Countless times. I don't know. I don't much care either so do whatever you feel is necessary.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 11:09, May 21, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::An oversight of six black orbs for half of the chapter? I doubt that. The only problem is the inconsistency of how many orbs Naruto actually has. When he came back to life, he had 7 orbs and 2 rods, then he used 3 rods to capture Madara's shadow, presumably 1 orb for the first BRS and 6 for the ones in this chapter, leaving him with -1 orb. My solution to that problem is that he used Madara's rod, which impaled Sakura. Since Madara is most likely out of control of that orb, it should be no problem for Naruto to use it. • Seelentau 愛 議 11:13, May 21, 2014 (UTC) I'm cool with listing TSB as a parent to this if others wish so, them vanishing when Naruto used all those TBBRS is enough for me. Omnibender - Talk - 17:05, May 21, 2014 (UTC) Kinjutsu Why is every version of Rasenshuriken dubbed Kinjutsu? The original Wind Release: Rasenshuriken was labelled a kinjutsu because of the drawback. The drawback has been solved with the original technique and has never been mentioned when it comes to new variations, so it seems unneeded in the infobox. SasookayIsRlyCoo (talk) 03:44, May 15, 2014 (UTC)SasookayIsRlyCoo :That's what I was thinking but what can ya do.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 10:22, May 15, 2014 (UTC) ::So you're saying that we should remove the kinjutsu classification from the Rasenshuriken and derivatives? Omnibender - Talk - 16:19, May 15, 2014 (UTC) :::@Ulti, that doesn't make any sense at all, the infobox should document the technique in its original use, not with modifications--Elveonora (talk) 17:36, May 15, 2014 (UTC) ::::If I wasn't clear, the original Wind Release: Rasenshuriken is a kinjutsu as was declared by Tsunade. Every other Rasenshuriken he made however wasn't given such classification. Especially since the reason it was made a kinjutsu was because it could royally screw Naruto over because he couln't throw it, and now every variation of the technique can be thrown.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 20:11, May 15, 2014 (UTC) Shouldn't a picture be added? Well two? I think when the RAW is out we should add the BFRS itself and its explosion to show its aftermath?--SuperSaiyaMan (talk) 18:45, May 17, 2014 (UTC) :All the usual places I check for RAWs don't have them yet. Omnibender - Talk - 19:13, May 17, 2014 (UTC) not wind release Official coloring confirms so.--Elveonora (talk) 22:36, May 19, 2014 (UTC) :Rasenshuriken has always been like that in the official coloured version, all the way back to when it was used against Kakuzu. Here. Omnibender - Talk - 22:38, May 19, 2014 (UTC) :: Indeed. If anything it only furthers the argument that it is Wind Release, because Kishimoto colored the original Wind Release Rasenshuriken as red, when it has Kurama's chakra, to begin with way back in its inception. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 04:43, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :::Link doesn't work for me, but I believe I know which image you are referring to. I recall that Kishimoto had originally intended for the Rasenshuriken to be red/orange, but scrapped the idea. As you can see, Wind Release: Rasengan is light-blue on volume 58 cover. I also recall it being light-blue in an official chapter coloring.--Elveonora (talk) 11:11, May 20, 2014 (UTC) ::::The digital colour comics consistently depict the Rasenshuriken as orange or yellow.--Soul reaper (talk) 11:14, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::Those aren't colored by Kishimoto tho--Elveonora (talk) 11:24, May 20, 2014 (UTC) ::::::... your point? This is one of the digital colour comics, it's just an early release, like we had once before. The colouring of the TBB Rasenshuriken is coloured here as the rasenshuriken has been in all other colour comics versions of the series.--Soul reaper (talk) 12:29, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::::Oh, then it's irrelevant anyway since it isn't done by Kishimoto and I think shouldn't be labeled canon--Elveonora (talk) 16:09, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::::: Who labeled them canon? You were the one trying to use it as an argument against the Wind Release, which it wouldn't have been anyways. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 16:20, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::It would, since Wind Release Rasengan is colored as blue by Kishimoto. So if this one were done by him, it would have meant it ain't wind release.--Elveonora (talk) 16:32, May 20, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::::Again; Rasenshuriken is Wind Release, period. If it has the name "Rasenshuriken" in it, then Naruto's using the steps to make it; Wind Chakra included. Shape and Nature Transformations. The color shouldn't have a damn thing to do with it aside from Kurama's influences. Not to mention, the Rasengan was influenced from the Bijudama; it shouldn't be hard to figure out that Naruto just combines the two (Bijudama and Rasenshuriken) for this absurdly powerful technique.--Super Kurama (talk) 15:09, May 21, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::::@Elevenora Except, Wind Release Rasenshuriken with the Kyūbi's influence was drawn as red by Kishimoto way back in the Hidan and Kakuzu arc, so again, your logic fails. This jutsu has been and always shall be Wind Release. End of story. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 15:44, May 21, 2014 (UTC) @Foxie, pics or didn't happen--Elveonora (talk) 16:59, May 21, 2014 (UTC) : Had you bothered to do your own research, you'd know that the image in question sits at the bottom of the Wind Release: Rasenshuriken page. Been there for ages. In fact, it was linked to you in literally the second response of this conversation. Edit: Also shown in the official colored volumes during the fight with Kakuzu. Again, its as simple as looking. You can see that image here ~ Ten Tailed Fox 18:20, May 21, 2014 (UTC) ::"Was considering" changed his mind obviously, since it's light-blue in its latest official colorings. Also the digital volume is irrelevant, it's only "official" as far as anime is "official"--Elveonora (talk) 18:37, May 21, 2014 (UTC) Truth-Seeking Ball In the latest chapter, we can see that Naruto doesn't have the balck orbs near him, which leads me to believe that the article's jutsu is built on a Truth-Seeking Ball. Your thoughts?--JOA20 (talk) 06:48, May 21, 2014 (UTC) : Nice catch, though I wouldn't know how to edit that info into the article. --Questionaredude (talk) 07:41, May 21, 2014 (UTC) ::Indeed, this supports what I stated above. • Seelentau 愛 議 09:36, May 21, 2014 (UTC) :::Sounds right to me. It happened in the previous chapter but it wasn't as clear. This chapter confirms it.--Soul reaper (talk) 11:07, May 21, 2014 (UTC) ::::Agreed.--Elveonora (talk) 11:38, May 21, 2014 (UTC) :::::Are you sure it isn't just a regular Bijuudama? Naruto still has his Truth-Seeking Balls, though it appears that only six of them. Xfing (talk) 16:42, June 6, 2014 (UTC) ::::::We are sure he made the TBBs outta the TSBs. Although it's no surprise considering that TSBs are Tailed Beast chakra--Elveonora (talk) 16:54, June 6, 2014 (UTC) And he only has six because the other three were shaped into stakes to bind Madara's first Limbo shadow, last seen under the watchful eye of one of his shadow clones. Omnibender - Talk - 00:29, June 7, 2014 (UTC) And because when he used the Multiple TBB Rasenshuriken, the six TSBs were temporarily gone. WindStar7125 (talk) 00:41, June 7, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125 Ying-Yang Release We know that With help from Kurama, Naruto adds wind-natured chakra to a Truth-Seeking Ball creating the characteristic shuriken-like blades and we also knows that TSB's type is Ying-Yang Release that's mean TBBRS as well is a ying-yang release + wind-natured chakra Asesino04 (talk) 09:30, June 1, 2014 (UTC) :Showed no signs of ninjutsu cancelling effects yet, so no. Omnibender - Talk - 12:12, June 5, 2014 (UTC) Kurama's Contribution I could be wrong but after knowing that Naruto could borrow the other Tailed Beasts' Chakra to create techniques, doesn't this article say something like Kurama is the one providing the wind Chakra? --MERCURIOUS (talk) 12:19, June 10, 2014 (UTC) :Why does everyone think Kurama contributed anything to the technique? • Seelentau 愛 議 13:34, June 10, 2014 (UTC) ::Kurama doesn't have Wind Release chakra according to the manga. —[[User:Shakhmoot|'Shakhmoot']] (Talk) 13:40, June 10, 2014 (UTC) ::@Seel, maybe because Naruto called out to the fox when he made the jutsu? Regardless, all we know is that Naruto asked Kurama for help, nothing more nothing less.--JOA20 (talk) 14:50, June 10, 2014 (UTC) ::I didn't say that Kurama provided Wind chakra, English isn't my first language so when the article says something like "with Kurama's help, Naruto add wind nature chakra" it looked to me like Kurama is the one providing it. @JOA also didn't Kurama provide the Bijuudama chakra for the jutsu--MERCURIOUS (talk) 17:31, June 10, 2014 (UTC) :JOA, Naruto called out to him and Kurama answered. There is no sign at all that Kurama did anything else than that. Also, Naruto didn't ask for help, he just said Kurama's name, if I recall correctly. • Seelentau 愛 議 18:06, June 10, 2014 (UTC) ::He said Kurama, and Kurama acknowledged. Unless Naruto is able to create Tailed Beast Balls without a tailed beast, the Tailed Beast Ball was Kurama's contribution. Not sure what was difficult about that.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'TheUltimate3']] (talk) 18:09, June 10, 2014 (UTC) :::But what did Kurama contribute? Naruto was shown to be capable of utilizing the negative white and positive black chakras himself during the training and Wind is his. Unless Yin Kurama is unlike Yang Kurama and he doesn't have free access to its chakra due to a new seal--Elveonora (talk) 18:12, June 10, 2014 (UTC) Well, like how all tailed beasts have special abilities (Shukaku's cursed seal, Son Goku's Lava Release), Kurama's special ability might be the Tailed Beast Ball. Think about it, when Naruto fought against Yang Kurama and took its chakra (thereby activating the Nine-Tails chakra mode cloak for the first time), it could still produce a TBB many times its own size. Also, when Naruto 1st activated Tailed Beast Mode with Yang Kurama, the TBB matched the power of five tailed beasts' combined TBBs. Now Naruto asks Yin Kurama to create a TBB along with his Rasenshuriken? It's looking like Kurama's specialty is the TBB. While all other Tailed Beasts have special abilities in terms of elements, seals, etc., Kurama's strongest area seems to be the TBB. WindStar7125 (talk) 18:28, June 10, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125 ::::Ulti, Naruto didn't create a TBB for this technique, he used the black orbs. I thought that was already made clear? • Seelentau 愛 議 18:46, June 10, 2014 (UTC) :::::Maybe that's what he was doing, he was "infusing" the TSB with a TBB, so to speak. Omnibender - Talk - 18:51, June 10, 2014 (UTC) ::::::Which raises an even greater question about Kurama's role in its creation--Elveonora (talk) 18:52, June 10, 2014 (UTC) :::::::As I said, you can see that he uses one of the orbs. It's pure speculation to say that Kurama had anything to do with this technique, just because Naruto called out to him. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:32, June 10, 2014 (UTC) ::::::::Why would he have done so otherwise?--Elveonora (talk) 19:40, June 10, 2014 (UTC) :::::::::To signal that he's going to attack, obviously. People tend to do that. • Seelentau 愛 議 19:43, June 10, 2014 (UTC) Well, you are free to remove it.--Elveonora (talk) 19:49, June 10, 2014 (UTC)